#3
Seriously good reading there! Particularly agree with the "(As a result of Spam) Consumers learn not to trust the search results from Google, killing business value for everyone". Here here. TY!
 

mneylon

Administrator
Staff member
#4
There's a lot of other good articles on their blog. I think I'll just post links to there every time I see some really dumb post about using dodgy techniques to rank quickly ..
 
#5
Seomoz is definitely one of the best resources out there from an SEO perspective. This is another good post.

His point that SEO is not easy - it requires alot of work is a very valid point. Too many people think that there has to be some a magical forumula to getting up the rankings very quickly with very little effort. SEO is like building any business - it takes a combination of hard work and knowledge to build a good reputation and achieve longevity.
 
#7
Why White Hat SEO? We don't claim to be better or more ethical than any other professional and reputable consultancy and we aren't making a desperate effort to differentiate ourselves from any other consultancy which is founded on correct principles, but it is fair to say that White Hat SEO is the cornerstone of any effective Internet marketing strategy. The Google Search Engine has a huge share in this market and our efforts focus on maximising the value of “free” placements on Google and the other major search engines. We can also provide guidance on Pay Per Click campaigns for you but we are firmly committed to the ROI that can only be delivered long term, through White Hat SEO - coherent, strategic development of organic search engine placements.

Achieving top ranking can make a significant difference to the number of targeted visitors finding your web site. With most businesses now moving onto the web, the ability to make your web site visible will determine whether you get the kind of new business returns from the Internet that are possible. Of course, competition for "first page listings" is increasing every day and finding the time, knowledge and cost required to earn them have become more challenging. We offer both entry level deliverables to the newcomer to the web marketing scene as well as consultancy to more developed businesses who want to achieve increased effectiveness and process efficiency in this area. Top ranking on search engines is the proven backbone of many established businesses and it continues to be the future of web marketing because it offers the best return on investment.

Achieving a top ten placement in a major search engine does not necessarily get you plenty of traffic. If your keywords are too general, you will have too many competitor sites to have a reasonable chance of obtaining a top search engine placement. We will guide you through the pitfalls and put you on track to choose the right words and strategy at the right time to increase your business as effectively as possible.
 
#9
Ok, great post from SEOMoz, Rand is one smart cookie and someone worth going to see speak, also a helpful guy, so i am a fan, but we need to move past the white hat vs black hat mythical battle. Most people who dive in and say "Yeah White Hat" don't even really know what they are saying "Yeah" to. There are no hard and fast rules what can be classed ultra white and what could be considered against Google's TOS. In reality there are lots of shades of gray in between this, where most good SEO's are. If people think they can rank in, Insurance, Gambling, Porn, Home Based Business, Internet Marketing, with white hat tactics and nothing else, they are not going to see much in terms of ROI. I would recommend reading the original post Rand was responding to "White SEO is a Joke", and everyone in the comments chiming in again, saying "Yeah White Hat is a Joke", again, with no specifics on what tactics they feel are a joke and what tactics against Google's TOS they are saying are ok to do.
Both posts are excellent but they are too simplistic and don't discuss actual tactics. Is tiered link building frowned upon by the white crowd, is cloning dropped domains for link juice frowned upon, is creating an affiliate program for your company and insisting on dofollow links for higher payouts frowned upon, is creating Web2.0 microsites around your money site frowned upon etc etc. Not enough specifics.
Google are an investor in VigiLink, an affiliate network who offer paid links. The lines are a lot more murky than white or black, wrong or white. For me, it's always a case of it depends, with a lot of outside factors like market, budget, client expectations, client wants (do they want to burn sites, i had someone say we want to rank 1 until our site gets banned so do your worst) etc etc etc.
 

zxn

New Member
#11
Blach hat can provide fast and easy benefits, but it won't last long.
In the long run, the white side of the Power is better. :)
 
#12
Excellent article on Seomoz's blog on why whitehat SEO tactics are better than blackhat ones:
White Hat SEO: It F@$#ing Works | SEOmoz
Great article i found this very interesting. I have a concern as to how my people / organisations actually play by these rules. For example a good friend of mine is using an established seo company at present & I believe they are participating in BlackHat Activity. My friend owns a building company therefore he has no online skills. He had me take a look at the e-mails the seo company sent him and the links they build. I have a couple of issues.

1) I believe they are outsourcing the work to another company to build anchor text links for him. (the company charge €xxx per month & my friend pays the seo company who he thinks is doing the work €xxxx per month.
2) I had a look at the 50links they created him (with 5 anchor text links) they all seem to coming from the same hosted service, they are on websites that only have a couple pages of text & mainly sponsored links.
3) The links are coming from sites that have absolute no reference to the building trade.

I brought the link issue, which I think is an issue to the seo company on my friends behalf using his e-mail address & they said 'it doesn't matter where the links come from they will still help your search result'

Also, here's another thing & I don't blame my friend here. I explained to him the difference between white hat & black hat - & he said to me 'Glen I'm a builder & if this seo company said they will get me on page 1 for 'keyword' 'keyword' then so be it, there the pro's here'

I'm just concerned for him & his company going forward should I try get him to retract from working with these guys. (then again it's not my business, I can only advise on best practice & to be honest I'm not sure If I have resources / capabilities to compete with this seo organisation).
 
#13
1) I believe they are outsourcing the work to another company to build anchor text links for him. (the company charge €xxx per month & my friend pays the seo company who he thinks is doing the work €xxxx per month.
Not technically blackhat or illegal unless he's stated that he's not sub-contracting or they are doing something blackhat. Again, not technically illegal unless he's advertising or agreeing a completely "White-hat" or "Within Google TOS" service

2) I had a look at the 50links they created him (with 5 anchor text links) they all seem to coming from the same hosted service, they are on websites that only have a couple pages of text & mainly sponsored links.
Again not technically illegal. Could the sponsored links be connected to CN AdWords ? Does seem disappointing but as I said before - you cannot assess an entire site's backlinks unfortunately. I did have one idiot go off the rafters because he "couldn't find" any. Even though his site ranked on page 1 (and still does!)

3) The links are coming from sites that have absolute no reference to the building trade.
So?

I brought the link issue, which I think is an issue to the seo company on my friends behalf using his e-mail address & they said 'it doesn't matter where the links come from they will still help your search result'
They probably won't do any harm. I've suggested before that getting lots of low-class links is a great way to hide the good ones.

Also, here's another thing & I don't blame my friend here. I explained to him the difference between white hat & black hat - & he said to me 'Glen I'm a builder & if this seo company said they will get me on page 1 for 'keyword' 'keyword' then so be it, there the pro's here'
Has your friend requested milestones, KPI's and references?

I'm just concerned for him & his company going forward should I try get him to retract from working with these guys. (then again it's not my business, I can only advise on best practice & to be honest I'm not sure If I have resources / capabilities to compete with this seo organisation).
How long are they working on it? Have they delivered anything? It may make sense to get someone who has outsourced before to look over it, like a website owner with strong traffic and positioning.
 
#14
1) Actually didn't mean for this to be black hat. (I just think it's bad form)
2) Not Sure about the CN Awords? & I mean same hosted sites as in, I think the company owns all the websites just to provide backlinks to manipulate PR.
3) I thought links are better quality if they come from related industries
4) humm interesting about 'hiding good links' - good point. (These links are purchased, again I thought you can not purchase links to manipulate PR).
5) eh I'm not sure - the company guarantee PR1 for the chosen terms.
6) I think he's with them a month or so. (i might get exact details and see what he's at).

*Think I found out what's happening - Everything/links are hosted on 1 server but on different IP's.
 

jol

New Member
#15
Enjoyed that article. SEOMoz have some great information on their site. I agree that White Hat SEO is best especially if you want to build a sustainable presence on the web. Unfortunately people expect that their website should be on page 1 of the google ranking as soon as their site goes live. SEO has to be revisited periodically for a site. It is a dynamic process and it takes time and work to build a trustworthy reputation but it is worth it in the end.
 

Byron

New Member
#16
Enjoyed that article. SEOMoz have some great information on their site. I agree that White Hat SEO is best especially if you want to build a sustainable presence on the web. Unfortunately people expect that their website should be on page 1 of the google ranking as soon as their site goes live. SEO has to be revisited periodically for a site. It is a dynamic process and it takes time and work to build a trustworthy reputation but it is worth it in the end.
concur
 
#19
If you are using white hat seo fully then you are not doing seo in a competitive area.

There is no such thing as white hat when you consider it deeply. All people who have intent of increasing a websites rank in a search engine are breaking google guidelines. No matter whether the method is deemed more ethical or non ethical.

What you would be classed as is grey hat in most cases.

Black hat is different from everything else because it involves methods that can get you banned such as doorway pages and redirects.
 
#20
If you are using white hat seo fully then you are not doing seo in a competitive area.

There is no such thing as white hat when you consider it deeply. All people who have intent of increasing a websites rank in a search engine are breaking google guidelines. No matter whether the method is deemed more ethical or non ethical.

What you would be classed as is grey hat in most cases.

Black hat is different from everything else because it involves methods that can get you banned such as doorway pages and redirects.
Exactly. There is no such thing as white hat. Read Googles webmaster guidelines. If you're link building its blackhat.
 
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