SEO Plan Of Attack - Maybe a Forum Project

[Wild Thing]

I have a client with a good internet business based within the lingerie and fashion sector. They rank number one for the term "erotic lingerie" "male lingerie" and a few other generic lingerie phrases. However my client wishes to rank well for the keyword "Lingerie" What is the best plan of attack to try and achieve this. I would rather not list the sites url in open forum, however if any of you SEO gurus would like to take a look and offer some advice I am more than happy to PM the url.

 

[link8r]

Thats a pretty top ranking search phrase. I'd be surprised if your client needs to - most people will use more than just one word when searching. I've discovered this as Google's count for searches using a "root" term (e.g. outsourcing or website design) actually delivers less traffic than being properly ranked for "outsourcing Ireland" or "accountancy outsourcing" or "outsourcing in dublin" etc. Far less. Maybe 10%.

I'd say this is a reasonable sized project to rank for Lingerie on it's own.In Google.co.uk (and .ie) there are some pretty well established domains to fight against with lots opf inbound links. Going to be like ranking a site for "Investment Property" (which returns less results according to Google but not trusting Google's headline figures)

 

[tomed]

I'd agree a lot with Link8r on this.

It's going to be quite difficult to get to the top for such a generic word.
But also "lingerie" might just be too generic for you to get quality visits, visits that turn into sales. The more specific the term, the more likely you are to get a return. So I would personally turn your client attention to more specific search phrases, spend time improving conversion on your site.

The time spent doing this will well get you a better return than the hard task of getting to the top for a such a generic search.

 

[link8r]

Keyword research is going to be important. So is knowing your current visibility. What are the most important terms? You have a number of tools to look this up.

You need to also know where you currently appear. I'd be trying to assess this site from about 100 different commonly used search phrases. If you're getting traffic for some that you have low visibility for, then they require SEO work.

If you're getting proportionately higher traffic from MSN/Yahoo, then it means your SEO is not working for Google or is behind. Google should provide 75% plus for example.

 

[hooloo]

I am too curious to see how the attack plan looks like. And the plan is actually ambitious (million searches per month?). Actually, I am confused with some advices here: If the site is ranked #1 for 2-word phases such as 'male lingerie' and some other 'abc lingerie' then why should we focus on other 2 or 3-word key phases? I thought the next step should be strengthening on the "lingerie" or "lingeries" word. Once you get some certain result with that key word, then obviously you have more chances for 2 or 3 phases which contain "lingerie" or "lingeries"

Anyone can explain?

 

[tomed]

I am too curious to see how the attack plan looks like. And the plan is actually ambitious (million searches per month?). Actually, I am confused with some advices here: If the site is ranked #1 for 2-word phases such as 'male lingerie' and some other 'abc lingerie' then why should we focus on other 2 or 3-word key phases? I thought the next step should be strengthening on the "lingerie" or "lingeries" word. Once you get some certain result with that key word, then obviously you have more chances for 2 or 3 phases which contain "lingerie" or "lingeries"

Anyone can explain?

Hi Hooloo,

The simple answer is that there is a huge amount of work involved in getting to the top for such a generic word. My main point is that your time would be better spent on more specific keyphrases.

There are studies that show most people will search with a 2-3 keyphrase search aswell - so that is another reason for this.

My other point was that search engine optimisation isn't only about building traffic, it's about building quality traffic, traffic that is more likely to convert. The more specific the search, yes the less traffic, but the more likely to make a conversion.

Tom

 

[link8r]

We're not suggesting it. We're suggesting the website needs to take a step back and research it's keywords first. A million searches per month - in the UK? Difficult to say. Google includes all the searches that lingerie appears in as well as singular searches (at lease this is proving to be the case). When you look at a site that is ranked for the biggest "Google Suggested" phrase, it doesn't deliver nearl that traffic on that one word but it may on the others.

 

[hooloo]

Hi Hooloo,

The simple answer is that there is a huge amount of work involved in getting to the top for such a generic word. My main point is that your time would be better spent on more specific keyphrases.

There are studies that show most people will search with a 2-3 keyphrase search aswell - so that is another reason for this.

My other point was that search engine optimisation isn't only about building traffic, it's about building quality traffic, traffic that is more likely to convert. The more specific the search, yes the less traffic, but the more likely to make a conversion.

Tom

Thanks Tom for your quick reply. I certainly do it your way if I start up a new site, then I will follow a niche market. Build key phases around that niche crowds. This is obviously an interesting case, the client owns a very profitable online business, according to Wild Thing. The website topic is of large interest, (in top 100 keyword some time last year, to my best memory). I think we should check with Wild Thing or that owner regarding the next business objective, who they want to aim at as potential buyers, how they're gonna make more profit ...

 

[tomed]

Thanks Tom for your quick reply. I certainly do it your way if I start up a new site, then I will follow a niche market. Build key phases around that niche crowds. This is obviously an interesting case, the client owns a very profitable online business, according to Wild Thing. The website topic is of large interest, (in top 100 keyword some time last year, to my best memory). I think we should check with Wild Thing or that owner regarding the next business objective, who they want to aim at as potential buyers, how they're gonna make more profit ...

I would say it doesn't make a difference if it's a new or old site. It's all about the work vs the return on investment.

You can use Google Keyword tool for an example.
Searches for "lingerie" were at 5 million for the US, but you had a host of 2-3 phrase searches such as "intimate apparel", "women's underwear", "thigh high stockings" all adding up to nearly half a million. That's 3 phrases that will be easier to target, plus they are very specific and more likely to convert.

I'm not saying avoid trying to get to the top for such a generic word, but the work would be better spent elsewhere. You can have your long term goal of getting to the top for the singular word and build it over time, but on a daily basis, focus on more specific phrases.

 

[Web Templates]

I would just say goodluck. That is a very generic (and popular) phrase to rank well for. As others have suggested I would go for multi-phrase words that include that term. Outside of buying the keyword.com domain I think it will be difficult.

 

[Wild Thing]

I know it is an uphill struggle. I have the domain Lingerie Blog, Forum, News, Events : Lingerie UK which I am also developing (just over the last 5 days) as a two prong attack to see which way the cookie crumbles, as web templates pointed out it may be the next best thing to a generic domain name.

 

[link8r]

Lovely Photo's Wild Think, I got some looks opening that at the dinner table. Nevermind, I'll learn from my mistakes .

You're real big problem, to be honest, will be link building. That's my honest, honest feeling on it. Building the right kind of links to counteract the age and links that your competitors have - to better present the site as the most suitable.

That is the biggest challenge for any SEO. I think you're going to need to do some smart out-of-the-box thinking here...you might be as well to talk to other SEO's about link swapping in the smarter sense. Not a one for one but for creating better content. Some of the SEO's here have 20/30 generic PR4+ sites, that when they link from them, good things happen.

You might want to consult the "Dark Side" - blackhat can be imaginatively ahead of white hat SEO.

 

[Wild Thing]

Errr I can imagine the looks at the table .
I have quite a good few contacts within the lingerie industry that the 2nd fork (website) would be willing to link to because the simple reason is that this site is a general promotion tool open to all and not considered a competitor within the e-commerce field.
I know the site could rocket with a bit of black hat but TBH I would rather roll over and die than go down that route.

 

[RedCardinal]

you might be as well to talk to other SEO's about link swapping in the smarter sense. Not a one for one but for creating better content. Some of the SEO's here have 20/30 generic PR4+ sites, that when they link from them, good things happen.

You might want to consult the "Dark Side" - blackhat can be imaginatively ahead of white hat SEO.

First you mention techniques that fall firmly outside Google's TOS. It may work some of the time, but Google has become better and better at weeding out domain farms. They probably don't bother looking at Ireland as much, but as with other things (e.g. resetting PR on expired domains) they will eventually get around to it in Ireland also. So just because this method works for you - pushing links to client sites from your domain farms - doesn't mean it's a compelling strategy longer term.

As for the blackhat mention - maybe you should be responsible and outline some of the risks involved with that?

@OP unless this domain is a throw-away, and you don't care if it gets burnt, the blackhat idea is just about the worst advice you could follow... especially if you haven't spent a lot of time mucking with search engines.

 

[link8r]

First you mention techniques that fall firmly outside Google's TOS. It may work some of the time, but Google has become better and better at weeding out domain farms. They probably don't bother looking at Ireland as much, but as with other things (e.g. resetting PR on expired domains) they will eventually get around to it in Ireland also. So just because this method works for you - pushing links to client sites from your domain farms - doesn't mean it's a compelling strategy longer term.

As for the blackhat mention - maybe you should be responsible and outline some of the risks involved with that?

@OP unless this domain is a throw-away, and you don't care if it gets burnt, the blackhat idea is just about the worst advice you could follow... especially if you haven't spent a lot of time mucking with search engines.

Completely outside the Google TOS.

It was meant very tongue and cheek.

And yes getting caught with Blackhat techniques = penalties or worse.

Disclaimer: I'm not an advocate of Blackhat techniques. I was just pointing out it was possible to employ them.

 

[ericstan]

rather than targeting too general and difficult keywords I would focus on targeting lots of smaller targeted keywords and creating indented listings for the already big keywords I rank for.