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Dotwebs

New Member
Is it necessary to repeat words that make up different but related phrases? For example:

web
website
web design
web development
web marketing

The phrases all use 'web' - is this spamming? Is it better to use:

web
website
design
development
marketing

Also, what's the maximum number of keywords allowed and how much is too much?


Thanks,
 

mneylon

Administrator
Staff member
From what other people are saying the meta description still has value, while the keywords seem to be a lot less important compared to the past
 

raul

New Member
Could be just me but in the last few months I've seen that now the page title ( or should I say the keywords used in the page title ) have more importance than the meta keywords or meta description...
 

Hafsoh

New Member
Could be just me but in the last few months I've seen that now the page title ( or should I say the keywords used in the page title ) have more importance than the meta keywords or meta description...
Yeah take the time to develop your title tags carefully, making sure you have a good keyword foundation from which to draw and that every page has its own unique title reflecting the subject and keyword terms being optimized for.
 

ritamac

New Member
Yeah take the time to develop your title tags carefully, making sure you have a good keyword foundation from which to draw and that every page has its own unique title reflecting the subject and keyword terms being optimized for.

I agree. From my understanding, Meta tags are not so important to Goolge but still somewhat important to Yahoo and MSN (who combined, have about 28% market share - not to be over looked).

The description tag should be used for exactly that - providing a brief description of what the site is about. As gbonnet said, the description is used as a snippet on the SERPs so it's a good idea to optimise it, describe your content using similar keywords but keep it sounding natural. Regarding length, I don't think there's a set rule here, just that if it's too long it will be truncated by Google - I think somewhere around 135 characters is optimal.

Regarding keyword tags...the way I see it is why not use them. But care should be taked not to stuff. Referring to your question Dotwebs, there's no need to repeat words. As far as I know there's no maximum as such, use a sentence-worth if you're unsure. The above keywords could be tagged something like:

website design, web development, internet marketing, online advertising

I definitely wouldn't repeat the words for the title tag. Raul said he's experienced a noticeable change in "the page title...more importance than the meta keywords or meta description...". And as pointed out by Hafsoh, have a different title for every page - have a maximim of three keywords/phrases per page and optimsie the content and the title around those.

Ideally, the title should contain a mixture of the three main keywords/phrases but used minimally if that makes sense. The more words used, the lesser the value assigned to each individual word. So no repeats if possible. And the primary keyword(s) should be as close to the beginning of the title as possible (keyword proximity) ...and no "stop" words like "to", "and", "of" - these are assumed words by the spiders so no need to add them. Using Dot's words above, the title tag could be something like:

Website Design | Developement | Marketing Online

The spiders will understand "website" as "web" and vice versa. Maximum length for title is said to be 75 - 85 characters though some believe it's 65. I'd go with the minimal-words rule but ensure that it doesn't exceed 75 characters (if possible).

Hope this is useful Dotwebs,

Rita
 

link8r

New Member
I think Google's post was aimed at teaching people to write descriptions for users, not for Search Engines, which is why the Page Title is quite important.

So much emphasis is put on "on-site" SEO factors like alt-tags, H1 tags, descriptions, keywords etc. It seems the more on page factors you know, the better an "SEO" you are. Most newcomers to websites/SEO still think it's about putting hundreds of keywords into a page. That more is better.

What Google is saying is true - what you put on your site isn't going to rank you - it just determines what searches (or search indeces) you display for. I.e. a site with a common vein of "Manufacturing Engineer" throughout the Page Title, description and content will invariably place that site into a search index for "Manufacturing Engineer" - but that doesn't state where in the search results it will be positioned - as we know that's all todo with external links as votes.

Getting back to the main question - you need to experiment. The more words you through in, the more you dilute your page. This is where the advice that plenty of Unique Content is important. Why have 1 page to cover 20 terms? Try having a page for "Website Design", "Website Development", "Content Management Systems", and send a clear message rather than a mixed and confusing one.
 

ritamac

New Member
Very true, well put link8r.

Of course off-page factors are more important than on-page for getting ranked but on-page stuff should still be implemented optimally.

And as link8r implied, content should be written for people - unique, quality content, first and foremost. The spiders come second...
 

Dotwebs

New Member
Thanks for all the help guys - goes way beyond what I was looking for. I suppose the search engines want to return relevant results so title, description, headings, content and alt tags should all contain relevant keywords.

I know there's no end to the art of SEO and it's really an on-going process, but when I design a new site, I like to code it so it's as well optimised as possible to kick-start their organic indexing.
 

ritamac

New Member
Yep,

Google is interested in a "good user experience", that's all that's needed really. You're on the right track...

Good luck :)
 

link8r

New Member
Great find Raul :) nice and sweet.

I like the way it distuingishes what so many sites put emphasis on as just being irrelevant like W3C validation. I've been saying this for years, notably as my own home page has over 93 errors (I think) and I couldn't care less...in fact I think it winds some people up so I'll leave it there.
 
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